I completely disagree with the wise sage Mr. Seth Godin in his recent post that asks, “Which comes first, the product or the marketing?”
Seth says “…it’s pretty clear that the marketing has to come before the product, not after.”
Pointing to the Toyota Prius and Jones Soda as examples of products that came after the marketing, Seth suggests that “just about every successful product or service is the result of smart marketing thinking first, followed by a great product that makes the marketing story come true.”
I don’t disagree with Seth that this trend of marketing coming before a product exists, but I take issue with the approach. When it comes to church marketing, we would do well to avoid this becoming a trend.
Marketing is how you tell the story of who you are. If you figure out how to tell your story and then attempt to pursue making that story real, you’ve got things backwards.
Very backwards.
Colt Melrose
February 5, 2009
So True. We have to be very careful not to sacrifice the message of the Gospel for marketing sake. We have the most important “product” in the world and it doesn’t change, no matter how we market it.
Jeremy
February 5, 2009
I’ve got to back Seth up on this, especially with consideration to the gospel. We need to hear the story first before we can believe and receive Jesus’ Spirit.
Look at Peter and the gentiles in Acts 10. The “product” was the Holy Spirit, which was poured out “while Peter was speaking.” They were also exposed to prior marketing, hearing of the miracles performed in Jesus’ name.
Chris
February 5, 2009
I agree with Brad, the story that Christ followers have to tell doesn’t change just the ways we choose to share that story. Our product came first and now we must find a compelling way to share that product with the world. That is our commission.
Daniel
February 5, 2009
John the Baptist is another Biblical example of marketing coming before the product.
Paul
February 5, 2009
Brad,
I am in the beginning stages of planting a church. We will be forming the launch team next month… however, before we get there I needed to incorporate and begin to raise money. This meant I needed to take the time to write out our strategic plan, mission, vision, values as well as our bylaws.
I’ve also begun working on a logo and our overall branding strategy for our church (which doesn’t really exist yet) that will match our vision/values.
In order to recruit followers I need to explain who we are (or who we will be)…So, do I have it backwards?
Geoff in CT
February 5, 2009
In conventional marketing, product development is indeed a marketing function. Note I said product development, not invention. The invention part is already done for us. We’re left with packaging it — how we present it to our audience.
I think the underlying problem most folks are stumbling over in this context is confusion between “packaging” and “product”.
Michael Buckingham
February 5, 2009
I have to disagree with Seth and Brad…it’s not an either/or issue, it’s a both/and.
Product and Marketing MUST work together for the greatest impact. This is true for widgets and the church.
When a pastor and a creative come together…WOW! I’ve done both. Some pastors insist on doing their part and then handing it off, and that works but not as well as when we link our giftings and vision together…that is the path to church marketing not suck.
Michael
February 5, 2009
We forget that marketing is the umbrella. It isn’t an order, per se, but the entire process. Did we all forget our Marketing class?
I’ve already commented on Seth’s perspective on my blog: http://lightemup.blogspot.com/2009/02/which-comes-first-product-or-marketing.html
JohnG
February 5, 2009
I personally think that Seth is right and Brad is wrong on this issue. Jesus is not a “product”. The “product” that we “market” is our local expression of church. That’s why we call it “church marketing”. We are usually ineffective for precisely the reason that Seth suggests — because we have not done the preliminary work and thought through the question: How can we be the most faithful community of followers of Jesus in our local context? Instead, we assume that our old, unfaithful expressions of “church” are in fact the timeless message of the gospel, and so “church marketing” becomes an exercise in trying to ram down people’s throats something that they don’t need.
EMartin
February 6, 2009
Let’s remember that marketing is not just advertising, or outbound messaging. A big part of marketing is determining who the customer is, and what their needs are. That aspect of marketing certainly has to precede the product, otherwise we have a solution looking for a problem that might not even exist.
Huw Tyler
February 6, 2009
I see there being two levels here.
1. New products
Churches release products all the time in the way of ministries and projects and these form a major part of the church’s make-up. But these ‘products’ must be launched on prior marketing. i.e. the brand of the church, it’s reputation, anything that precedes these products. It is both the foundation on which we launch new things and the umbrella that people see.
2. New churches
When you have no brand, no reputation, no previous marketing, your new product launch is the church itself. This doesn’t limit itself to church plants. This could be your re-brand, your new leaf or ‘under new management!’
What so many people forget is that marketing your brand is more than just colours, logos, nice pictures of pretty people and the latest buzz words. Marketing IS the inside-out action of the church. Statement of faith and proposals are part of the marketing. The new logo is part of the marketing. The first mission is part of the marketing. The attitudes of the membership is part of the marketing.
And so in this respect, product and marketing come hand in hand.
The Church isn’t ‘Jesus packaged’, it is Jesus unpacked.
Kevin D. Hendricks
February 6, 2009
A lot of confusion going on here. I think what Brad is getting at is that for the church marketing can never change our message. Certainly our methods will change. How we package that message will change. But the core message of the gospel will never change (or we lose everything).
From Seth’s perspective (or a general business perspective), the message isn’t sacred. Widgets or Jones Soda or Priuses aren’t sacred and you can change that core product without a problem.
That’s not true for the church. You can change your approach, change your ministry, change your focus, but the gospel still has to be at the heart.
Brad Abare
February 6, 2009
Indeed, many thoughts in many directions.
@Jeremy, Not sure I follow your Acts analogy with Peter speaking and the Holy Spirit being poured out. That is not a product/marketing scenario in my opinion.
@Daniel, Likewise, using John the Baptist as an example of marketing before product doesn’t work either. If anything, that would be the other way around. John had experienced and understood the Liberating King, so he invested his life preparing the way, but being a voice crying out in the wilderness.
@Paul, Developing your identity, who you are, etc. are things you should be doing as a church plant. However, you’re an expression of a church that already exists. You’re not a new church, you’re an expression of God’s church. You already have the story, you’re just adapting it to your context to reach people where you’re at (part of what marketing is).
@Huw Tyler, I like what you said, “The Church isn’t ‘Jesus packaged’, it is Jesus unpacked.”
Nathan Williams
February 6, 2009
Just to change things up a little – okay, the “product” is Christ, but Christ took on flesh in a particular time and place, spoke a particular language, etc. Then, we can’t forget that he commissioned his followers to go on giving him flesh, to act as his body. So the “Product” is eternal, but each of us are time-bound “products” that put flesh on eternity in our time and place, speaking our particular language, etc.
What’s more, the “marketing” – all the words that we use to communicate Christ’s message – “marketing” has to come first, for the same reasons that it came first in our lives. I was hearing the core “marketing” message read, preached, and lived long before I was any “product” to speak of. We get together for worship and talk about God’s ideals. When we preach, pray, sing, or ritually drink coffee together, we’re “marketing” lives of devotion to God and love for all our neighbors. We aren’t yet perfectly devoted to God or truly loving to all people. So yes, we have to be careful about our marketing, because it’s also our product development.
Morgan Stone
February 6, 2009
the 4 P’s of marketing
Product, Placement, Price, & Promotion
the goal is to combine those 4P’s and formulate a marketing strategy that hits the target market
I think what Seth is talking about is creating a product that has the target market in mind.
Now in a church marketing environment, we don’t change the core of our message. But what we do change is how we present and promote it to reach our multiple target markets.
Jeremy
February 6, 2009
@Brad – I’m thinking Acts 10 was a bad analogy, since Peter had the Spirit himself – that is, the Spirit existed.
I think you’ve persuaded me, sir. It works in the secular world where you can create the product, but we can’t create God.
Andrew VanderPloeg
February 6, 2009
An important part of the battle that us Christian Marketing types face is to outline and clarify the fact that marketing isn’t a 9-letter version of a 4-letter word in the Christian community. One of the most effective ways to do that is to clearly draw parallels between the approach to business and our approach to communicating the Gospel and in doing so, show people that there’s a really natural connection between the two.
But I think we need to be clear on the fact that the parallels do break down at some point. We don’t have liberty to change the base “product” here and so Seth’s advice, while applicable in the business world, doesn’t even apply to marketing the Gospel unless you start playing with what the idea of the “product” is.
Some of the comments above make me wonder if at times we get so good at defending the value of marketing in the church that we stop allowing for where the parallels breaks down. And that’s not meant in a mean-spirited manner – just a reminder of how our passion can blind us, myself included.
David Farlow
February 6, 2009
It is really a partnership and dual course for development.
Marketing before the product/service is ready to implement can easily lead to unrealized hopes/expectations.
If your new soft drink (we’ll call it Fizz) hasn’t been developed yet, but you are marketing how great it is, it better be. Because the one shot you have is the first taste of Fizz by the customer. If Fizz tastes bad, you’ve lost all credibility with that customer and all he tells about the experience.
Kind of like a church that recognizes the need to become more visitor/seeker friendly. If they haven’t changed anything, or the plans are in development, they had better not launch their marketing effort until it is ready for ‘show time’. Otherwise, the visitor may experience the same old church and never come back again. Saying it is so doesn’t necessarily make it so. The tangibles (products/services) must be ready and in place unless you are looking for a real ‘say – do’ gap.
The marketing plan should be in concert with the product/service development and then be implemented once the product has been tested and ready – not before.
davis staedtler
February 8, 2009
Seth is the bomb. Jim Collins always said, “First who, then what.” I think Seth says the same. Your “who” is your marketing and your target. “What” is the product.
Larry Witzel
February 14, 2009
Our job as church leaders is to create opportunities for individuals to encounter the living God. Everything we do is about creating experiences where people connect with Jesus and His Good News. That gospel never changes, but our expression of it is always in the context of our local culture.
If marketing is promotion (the definition that appears to be assumed at Church Marketing Sucks), then you’re right, Brad. But if marketing is the entire process of (in the context of church) influencing people toward becoming fully committed disciples of Jesus, and if the product is the activity or experience you’re intending to create, then marketing absolutely must come first.
You have to know people and their needs in order to speak to those needs. Blindly going in and assuming that what we’ve always done is what people need is what most churches do, and is the fundamental reason why most church marketing sucks.