Veeerrrry interesting. I remembering reading a Lee Stroebel? book about Willow Creek in the mid-90's, and even then I didn't necessarily buy into the whole seeker-friendly outlook it put forward. And more and more churches I was around seemed to focus only on programs, which was just completely lost on me, until about five years ago when the large church in Nebraska that I attended decided to radically change their model.

And I though that change was a very good thing.

If we perceive a vacuum and concentrate all our energy into filling, we will undoubtedly cause another vacuum somewhere else. Willow Creek has effectively tapped into a perceived need in the world, and now it's simply perceiving another.

It is humbling and inspiring to hear that is as big and outwardly successful as WC making very public apologies, and changing focus to accommodate real needs.

I am a bit iffy on the term "self-feeder" though. I get its intent, but I think it tends to reinforce individualism -- a major corruption of our faith.

It will not be an easy shift from programs to relationships. That is what our church is currently experiencing and feeling the struggles. I can tell you that we are also experiencing a great deal of deep relationships with others and with God, as we focus on relational and intentional ministries.

As for Brad's comment about self-feeder, I agree. There is a danger that it will let people flounder around. That is the last thing that is needed. In Hebrews, we are called to move past milk and move onto spiritual meat. Basically, we must grow up in our faith. That is a process that individuals contribute to, but the church as a whole can foster the growth and support the habits necessary for healthy, long-term growth.

Probably 30 years ago I heard a Christian leader say that the concept of discipleship in England was defined as helping people become "self-feeding Christians." I think the purpose was to help us understand that true discipleship "weans" new believers from dependency on another Christian to ultimate dependency on Christ for their daily life.

My colleagues and I just read "Reveal" as a church staff and allowing it to inform our decision making process. It will be very helpful to have quantitative research to help us better reach our community as well as help our congregation self-feed.

What bothers me most is the self-righteous gloating on other message boards. The fact that Willow is willing to share what they have learned demonstrates character and leadership on their part.

I totally get trapped in the idea of a mechanistic "silver bullet program" Christianity.

I love the transparency and humility in a huge church repenting. Its hard enough for me to admit I am wrong, I cant imagine being in that big of a spotlight and having to do it.

Kudos to Willowcreek

A fascinating account. The church I currently serve is making this shift away from program-driven ministry to relationship-driven ministry that is focused on small group disciple-making. It is very, very difficult to make this change, as there are some core items in the programming docket that are just tough to let go of.

I'm encouraged that other church leaders are seeing the necessity of moving beyond campus-centric programming to something simpler and ultimately more effective. It will be interesting to see where Willow Creek ends up in 5 years. I think its brave to have this level of introspection as a nationally-known church in a public forum like books/internet.

It is a massive overstatement to say that Willow is apologizing for their philosophy of ministry. They're simply saying that based on the findings of the surveys that form the basis for Reveal: Where Are You? they're aware that they've not done enough to teach believers how to continue to grow by self-feeding. In addition, a careful reading of Reveal acknowledges that 85% of the 5000 surveyed come 3 to 4 times a month, much more frequently than the average Willow attendee. What does that say? It says that what they're "apologizing" for is not being proactive about helping their most mature believers become self-feeders.

Are these people serious? We made a mistake. We led thousands of churches and took millions of dollars down the wrong road. We're sorry. Now let's go down this new survey driven road together. Don't forget to bring your cash. We have lots of books and seminars to sell.

Here's how I see it. Their 30 year marketing plan has run out of steam. They play the humility card, admit they were wrong, star a new "conversation" (sound "Emergent" to anyone else?) and build a whole new publishing and workshop empire.

God gave us a book. It tells us everthing we need to know as Christians and what to do as a church. Why are we waisting millions on this junk?

If the early church was seeker sensitive,where would we be today?
It's still the 3 b's: buildings, bucks, and butts. As a pastor who attempts to preach the word surrounded by seeker sensitives, I wonder what my children's churches would look like. Are Hybels and company sincere or looking to add to THEIR kingdom?

I have been heavily involved in my seeker targeted church. I have recently left because of the hurtful marketing/demographic study that showed they needed to cater more toward the 20/30yr olds.I was a member of the vocal team(9 yrs) and turned 40 recently. They stopped scheduling me to sing. They wanted to vocalists to mirror that age group. Very hurtful. What happend to shepperding the flock? Its hard to be viewed as expendable.

It is with great interest that I read of where Bill Hybels has assessed that they have been wrong in the way that they have discipled the people in their care.
My opinion is that if every Church in the world had been as wrong as Bill and the Willow Creek Church, the whole world would be saved now and we would be with Jesus in heaven.
We have a lot to thank Bill Hybels for... He is one of the greatest Christian leaders in our time and his passion about reaching lost people for Jesus has impacted thousands of Churches around the world.

Only a great leader is able to admit their mistakes... I am sure that Bill will learn from this and be even more effective in reaching lost people to Jesus...

Our mission and purpose is all about bringing Christ's new life to people... God Bless!!

With regard to Willow Creek apologizing.Here we have a church that in effect has admitted to wasting time and millions of dollars of donor money that could have been better spent on the REAL needs of people rather than Church programs that do nothing more inflate the egos of the Church leadership.The phrase "blind leaders of the blind" somehow comes to mind.

With regard to Willow Creek apologizing.Here we have a church that in effect has admitted to wasting time and millions of dollars of donor money that could have been better spent on the REAL needs of people rather than Church programs that do nothing more inflate the egos of the Church leadership.The phrase "blind leaders of the blind" somehow comes to mind.

With regard to Willow Creek apologizing.Here we have a church that in effect has admitted to wasting time and millions of dollars of donor money that could have been better spent on the REAL needs of people rather than Church programs that do nothing more inflate the egos of the Church leadership.The phrase "blind leaders of the blind" somehow comes to mind.

With regard to Willow Creek apologizing.Here we have a church that in effect has admitted to wasting time and millions of dollars of donor money that could have been better spent on the REAL needs of people rather than Church programs that do nothing more inflate the egos of the Church leadership.The phrase "blind leaders of the blind" somehow comes to mind.

It is doubtful that Willow Creek has 'repented'.All they have done is admit a mistake-there is a difference.

I thought you might enjoy this cartoon I created illustrating some of the key points of this discussion. Check it out and let me know what you think.

I have to agree with Mark Howell.
The willow leaf foundation has run out of steam. They are doing what any corporation in that position would dol. Get together and come up with a redemtion stragety. Well it seems that they have done just that. Don Byers stated that their church got together and have found the "Reveal" campaign to be great answer to a failed concept.
The Willow leaf corporation has just shifted fire and the tickling ears are listening.

I have to correct my post.
Mark Howell should have been Jimmy at November 7, 2007 10:17 AM
and Don Byers should have been Sam at October 25, 2007 12:26 PM

SUB,

You misunderstood the intent of my post.
I said that my staff and I had read the "Reveal" book and found it informative as to what we really want to focus on. Every church I have been to in my life has focused on getting people into a "program" of some sort. Not caring if we facilitated permanently shallow faith. This was before anyone had ever heard of Willow.

My staff and I simply want to help make disciples like Jesus commanded. It my and my colleagues impression that Willow is desiring to focus on that as well. Call Willow's book an apology or call it whatever you want. I honestly doubt that most of the people who criticize the book so fiercely have read it. My original irritation with self-righteous gloating still applies as well.