Comments on: Fight Church: Mixed Martial Arts as Ministry

By: Danny White

Danny White — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:21:50 +0000

Anointed Fighter Vision:
Serve as ambassadors for Christ to the fighting community around the world by creating platforms and resources that deliver the gospel in relevant terms to the fighting culture.
Anointed Fighter (AF) recognizes that Mixed Martial Arts has become a cultural phenomenon as the fastest growing spectator sport in the world. AF desires to reach the MMA world and its culture with the message of salvation by providing hope, encouragement and truth in a relevant way while breaking down misconceptions of what it means to be a disciple of Christ.
AF envisions a time when every MMA enthusiast around the world will be impacted by its ministry through licensed merchandise, print publications, multimedia productions and short-term outreach events that will lead to long-term, self-sustaining discipleship programs.
AF aspires to accomplish these goals by collaborating with the top Christian fighters and best in class organizations within the MMA community. These fighters and organizations will work hand in hand with AF to formulate and deliver the best products and services in their respective fields.
If you have the vision to impact the MMA community for Christ, we want to work with you.
http://www.anointedfighter.com

By: Sean Salter

Sean Salter — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:23:10 +0000

If you don’t train some form of martial art, or never have, you really have no business having an opinion, no matter how you try and make it sound humble. You don’t get MMA, you never will, so move along nothing to see here. Eugene Cho doesn’t get MMA either, again, keep your opinion to yourself.
The simple fact that he would for one second say Paquioa > GSP proves my point. Boxers are deathly afraid of MMA because MMA fighters are real warriors, not dudes trying to score points with over sized gloves.
Machismo, manhood boy, yada yada yada. Too many of you speak, but you really have nothing to say that is relevant to the discussion because you have never trained MMA. You have ZERO idea what goes into it, whats behind it, and why anyone involved would want to turn it into a ministry.
The sad thing is that this blog entry hasn’t sought out the churches side to the story. I mean come on, the New York Times does legitimate stories on churches all of a sudden? I wasn’t born yesterday. So I will give the church and churches in question the benefit of the doubt.
I train Muay Thai, I used to train BJJ until I decided I didn’t want collar flower ear. When you train, you train closely, and very intimately with other men. some times its a large group, most of the time its smaller groups and pairings. Its a discipleship system. More experienced fighters train with less experienced fighters and you rotate in and out. You become a brotherhood, a crew, a small elite fighting force. Its something men who lack the warrior spirit or women can’t fathom. Its a bond you can’t touch. But its there, and its strong, and its a breeding ground for other kinds of discipleship. The model Jesus gave us in discipleship fits perfectly into the MMA training formula.
The simple fact is, Men have lost interest in Church because church is failing to disciple men. We see forms of discipleship every where but church now days. Sports teams and sports camps, car clubs, Guilds in World of Warcraft, I could go on and on, yet the church is sooooooo focused on bringing people in to its building, when Jesus was NEVER about that. He was about relationship, close intimate relationship.
Men are violent, some more than others. Does anyone read the bible anymore? OT talks much about men filling different roles in Israel, priests, artists. . . WARRIORS. Some men are suited for the pansy life, some aren’t. Not all men are the same. There are those that craft the sword, those that bless it, and those that stick it in the evil guy trying to take over your land. Some of use are warriors. Bible is full of them, David was one. We fight, we ned to fight, and we need to get our aggression out in other ways than talking about it. Talking about emotions is for women. Learning to be a man is also more than throwing a punch correctly.
And when you train MMA or any form of martial arts correctly, you understand what I am talking about. If you haven’t or don’t currently, your opinion is absolutely pointless, but judge away, thats what christians do best.

By: Ruben

Ruben — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:30:28 +0000

Seems like there are several issues here and implied questions in people's comments:
1. Can a Christian be involved in martial arts?
2. Should a church promote martial arts?
3. Are some martial arts taboo but others ok to be practiced by Christians or promoted by churches?
4. Even if Christian martial arts is ok, might we still market it poorly so it sends a wrong message we don't want?
My teenage involvement with martial arts led me away from God, but 20 years later I was able to pick it back up. I now study under a Christian instructor who is training me to use it as a tool for God's glory. While we learn traditional self defense as well as spiritual application, great emphasis is placed on personal discipline, which is certainly biblically consistent. What good does it do to know how to execute a powerful move if you are too out of shape to do it? The important thing is to avoid the mysticism trap that is so common in many martial arts.

By: Jessie Jennings

Jessie Jennings — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:23:41 +0000

We discussed this the other night and a key point that came up in the discussion was the fact that their motivation is honorable but their methods seem faulty. As we carry the banner for Christ we have a zeal to reach the world which is great but we would do well to periodically ask ourselves if the methods that we’re using to “market” Christianity are things that Christ would endorse. While MMA is a rising business I’m not sure that Christ would have attended the events if they were around in His time among us. The fact that Jesus corrected Peter when he tried to complete an ear chopping Kung-Fu combo on one of the guards in the garden illustrates that violence is not an activity that He stands behind…even when the motives are pure. I admire their resolve to reach the masses for Christ but I’d head “back to the drawing board.”

By: Jessie Jennings

Jessie Jennings — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:21:56 +0000

We discussed this the other night and a key point that came up in the discussion was the fact that their motivation is honorable but their methods seem faulty. As we carry the banner for Christ we have a zeal to reach the world which is great but we would do well to periodically pause to ask ourselves if the methods that we’re using to “market” Christianity are things that Christ would endorse. While MMA is a rising business I’m not sure that Christ would have attended the events if they were around in His time among us. The fact that Jesus corrected Peter when he tried to complete an ear chopping Kung-Fu combo on one of the guards in the garden illustrates that violence is not an activity that He stands behind…even when the motives are pure. I admire their resolve to reach the masses for Christ but I’d head “back to the drawing board.”

By: Colin Mattoon

Colin Mattoon — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:40:08 +0000

I share many of your concerns about how Christians are trying to bring the Gospel to MMA. Around January 2009 there was a conference here in Portland OR. called ‘Fighting with God’ that featured Mark Driscoll, Darrin Patrick, Ryan Dobson, and a few UFC fighters. The conference was a perfect picture of whats best and worst at the church’s attempt to bring the gosepl to this subculture. Hearing Mark Driscoll walk through the story of the Bible gave me great hope that we can reach non-christian men with the Gospel. Listening to Ryan Dobson made me afraid we were just going to return to the kind of manhood that fueled the rise of feminism. In the end I think if we don’t read our bibles well, and develop a solid and balanced theology, we will just swing from one extreme (passive men who won’t risk for the glory of god, lead their families in a loving sacrificial way, or be willing to fight for the gospel) to the other extreme (overbearing men who abuse their masculinity to serve themselves, dont lead their families in a loving sacrificial way, and wont subject themselves to following anyone but themselves). Jesus is both the strong lion and the weak lamb. Men need to be bold, courageous, leaders, and willing to risk while also being gentle, loving, forbearing, and servants of all. Having a strong, well informed, theology is the only thing that will keep us from falling into the trap of reactionary thinking about manhood, which is core to the whole idea of how to reach fighters. Those wanting to bring the gospel to this community need to think long and hard about their theology of ‘leading’ and ‘masculinity’. Reading Piper and Grudem’s Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood wouldn’t hurt either to see how to speak about these issues in a humble way. Frankly, the attitude that often comes across from the folks talking about ‘biblical masculinity’ in the fight world is arrogant and harmful to their ultimate cause.

By: Kimberly

Kimberly — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:05:01 +0000

Most revealing quotation about the real motivation behind Fight Church:
“The man should be the overall leader of the household,” said Ryan Dobson, 39, a pastor and fan of mixed martial arts who is the son of James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, a prominent evangelical group.
So, is this just a “creative” way to bring more men to church or a repackaging of the now-rejected theology about a “woman’s place” as subservient to men.

By: Mark Clayson

Mark Clayson — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:39:55 +0000

This is my first time i visit here. I found so many entertaining stuff in your blog, especially its discussion. From the tons of comments on your articles, I guess I am not the only one having all the enjoyment here! Keep up the excellent work.

By: Marc Aune

Marc Aune — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:24:07 +0000

Amen, Hal.

By: Hal Thomas

Hal Thomas — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:52:00 +0000

Maybe the better question isn’t to MMA or not to MMA (or UpWards Basketball, etc.). Maybe the better question to ponder is why does the church keep dreaming up new ways to get people to come to a building (for a program or “ministry” event), rather than taking a life patterned after Jesus to people?