Comments on: Why I’ve Run From Churches

By: Scott in Vegas

Scott in Vegas — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:39:13 +0000

Excellance can be simple, and still be excellant. In fact, sometimes less is more, especially went that “less” is done well.
Scott in Vegas
http://www.newchurchreport.com – New Church Report
http://cells-twelves.blogspot.com – Expectation Blog

By: doug

doug — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:00:51 +0000

Jesse, you make an interesting point about mediocrity… I don’t really think excellence means fancy bulletins, lighting, staging, etc.
I think the point is that excellence or not being mediocre doesn’t have to be expensive, excellence can be simple. Excellence can be a specially prepared and delivered sermon with a song that matches it. Maybe it means practicing the flow of service so that things transition smoothly. There are lots of things that can build excellence without costing a fortune. It just takes some extra thought to produce excellence… Not just throwing something together, might be excellent enough.

By: Jesse Phillips

Jesse Phillips — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:16:30 +0000

I take issue with the mediocrity thing. What the world classifies as excellent, we don’t have the money to do. We’re doing the best we can (not me personally, I mean we the small churches of America).
The world may like an awesome graphical bulletin (I’m a designer, I LOVE graphic design and HATE clip art, but Jesus doesn’t), but we may not be able to produce that, or afford to.
God cares how we spend our money, and Jesus doesn’t care about the outward appearance, but how we love and serve people, and disciple people to do the same. So, I’m wary of saying we need to be all excellent, when we’re not getting the most important thing right: loving our neighbor, and being known for that.
I’d much rather be known for being loving and selfless but being cheezy, then being known for having cool bulletins, programs, rock concert worship, but little love and being selfish.
I feel like we’re known for the second one right now.

By: Nick Gill

Nick Gill — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 05:14:20 +0000

Contentment with mediocrity never glorifies God. We may aim for excellence and only attain mediocrity, and thus honor God with the excellence of our striving.
However, we must take care to excel in things that matter – compassion, justice, mercy, beauty, spirituality.

By: Jermayn Parker

Jermayn Parker — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:10:10 +0000

btw in my last sentence I meant “temples” instead of churches..

By: Jermayn Parker

Jermayn Parker — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:08:28 +0000

Jon, I know the church who use the “horror house” them for hallowean and two points I would like to raise in defense to what you asked. 1) there is an age restriction and they watch much worse and scarier stuff on tv every night. 2) After each session, they have a time for follow up and to recieve salvation.
I agree that winning people (salvation) is the MOST IMPORTANT factor for any church BUT i think just preaching to empty seats does not work. You must bring the church to the people. If thats via a skate park, do it.
The early Christians went to the markets, churches etc to do excatly that.

By: Bob Lotich

Bob Lotich — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 20:30:25 +0000

I just realized I addressed Scott – sorry Scott, I meant to say that to Jon…

By: Bob Lotich

Bob Lotich — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:16:26 +0000

Scott,
I am in complete agreement with you about your point regarding mediocrity, if it is just an excercise not to be mediocre – rather than with the end in mind of getting souls then there may be a problem. My frustration with mediocrity in the church is when IT gets in the way of souls…
I do also agree with you on the 2nd point, but just not as much ;)
Obviously, the church is supposed to be different, but still in the World, just not of it. Yea, the haunted house thing isn’t for every church, but bottom line it is something God is using. Billy Graham is a great evangelist, but his call isn’t to disciple new believers- that is someone else’s call who may not be called to full time evangelism.
My point here is each christian, minister, church has a different call and we should do our best to find out what that is and do it.

By: Heath

Heath — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:28:52 +0000

Great note! Excellent points! I am with you on each one.

By: Jon Stallings

Jon Stallings — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:21:34 +0000

Hi Scott,
Great comments, but here are some of my thoughts.
Mediocrity – Excellence is important but what is the purpose and the end result? Churches often get caught up in striving for excellence and wind up burning out their people and burning up all their money with all the programs. Sometimes we just need to keep it simple.
Adaptation – The church must be careful when adapting to the things of this world. A church with a haunted house? People lined up for hours? How many people are getting saved and being discipled on an ongoing basis because of this event? How many kids go home and have nightmares? I am no theologian but I am not aware of very many instances where the Apostles or Jesus preached about hell in order to get people saved. There are many areas the church can adapt to reach the lost, but in the end the church should influence the culture, not the other way around.