Comments on: Marketing Waste: Cost per Conversion http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/ Frustrate. Educate. Motivate. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:01:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sean Cannell http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-13703 Sean Cannell Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:28:28 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-13703 I think "ROI" should be a major discussion in every areas of church and ministry and I'm thankful for this series to stir that pot! I think often times churches and leaders lob out spending, time, and energy on the wrong things. Thanks for the insights! At almost every major intersection we should ask... what is the Return on investment for what we are about to do! I think “ROI” should be a major discussion in every areas of church and ministry and I’m thankful for this series to stir that pot! I think often times churches and leaders lob out spending, time, and energy on the wrong things. Thanks for the insights!

At almost every major intersection we should ask… what is the Return on investment for what we are about to do!

]]> By: Nate White http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6557 Nate White Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:27:21 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6557 As a marketing guy who's not exactly a believer, I don't find the use of "conversion" offensive at all. As for a business side of things you MUST track figures such as <a href="http://ppcinsanity.com/cost-per-conversion-analysis-focusing-on-conversions" rel="nofollow">cost per conversion</a> so you can go back to your church members and say "Look what we've done!" I actually had a client a few months back who sold Sunday school supplies online and talking to him about cost per conversion always gave me a little chuckle. :o) As a marketing guy who’s not exactly a believer, I don’t find the use of “conversion” offensive at all. As for a business side of things you MUST track figures such as cost per conversion so you can go back to your church members and say “Look what we’ve done!”
I actually had a client a few months back who sold Sunday school supplies online and talking to him about cost per conversion always gave me a little chuckle. :o)

]]> By: Anthony Peterson http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6556 Anthony Peterson Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:29:47 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6556 PS. Just to remind all our super spiritual friends out there, if we actually looked at cost per converstions and then did something about it we would stop investing millions of dollars in wasteful things (e.g. Christian television?) and invest them in ver cost effective missions work. This would translate into more people saved and won into the kingdom of Heaven. Think about that at your next prayer meeting. And - if you dont think the church needs money to actually reach people then try telling that to your pastor. In fact, why not experiment by getting your whole congregation to stop tithing for a year? Your church would be dead in about 6 weeks. PS. Just to remind all our super spiritual friends out there, if we actually looked at cost per converstions and then did something about it we would stop investing millions of dollars in wasteful things (e.g. Christian television?) and invest them in ver cost effective missions work. This would translate into more people saved and won into the kingdom of Heaven. Think about that at your next prayer meeting.
And – if you dont think the church needs money to actually reach people then try telling that to your pastor. In fact, why not experiment by getting your whole congregation to stop tithing for a year? Your church would be dead in about 6 weeks.

]]> By: Anthony Peterson http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6555 Anthony Peterson Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:20:12 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6555 Cost per conversion? Why not measure cost per conversion. Billy Graham does - at least he reports of the expenditure of each crusade and the number of inquirers. Divide the former by the later and you have your cost per conversion. Was that hard? No. Was that blasphemous? No I dont think so. Its HOW we interpret this data that will lead to intelligent discussion and some times heated debate. The simple fact is churches have limited resources and the primary goal of the church is evangelism. Surely the parable of the talents teaches us that Jesus will hold us repsonsible for how efectively we used our resources. Call me old "crazy", call me "old fashioned" or maybe Im just fed up with Churches wasting money. With no defined and measureable goals then theres no accountability. It what I call the Homer Simpson attitude to evangelism "If at first you dont succeed then pretend you never tried". Ps the "cost per life saved" issue is the subject of much more debate in the secular world. Check out my website if you are interested. Cost per conversion? Why not measure cost per conversion. Billy Graham does – at least he reports of the expenditure of each crusade and the number of inquirers. Divide the former by the later and you have your cost per conversion. Was that hard? No. Was that blasphemous? No I dont think so. Its HOW we interpret this data that will lead to intelligent discussion and some times heated debate. The simple fact is churches have limited resources and the primary goal of the church is evangelism. Surely the parable of the talents teaches us that Jesus will hold us repsonsible for how efectively we used our resources. Call me old “crazy”, call me “old fashioned” or maybe Im just fed up with Churches wasting money. With no defined and measureable goals then theres no accountability. It what I call the Homer Simpson attitude to evangelism “If at first you dont succeed then pretend you never tried”.
Ps the “cost per life saved” issue is the subject of much more debate in the secular world. Check out my website if you are interested.

]]> By: Tim Wall http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6554 Tim Wall Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:53:16 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6554 Yes, Sam, perhaps you are misunderstanding the term "cost per conversion." See comment number two (above) where I addressed this. Yes, Sam, perhaps you are misunderstanding the term “cost per conversion.” See comment number two (above) where I addressed this.

]]> By: Sam Andress http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6553 Sam Andress Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:23:21 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6553 I hope I am misunderstanding your use of "cost per conversion." Either way that seems to be a very nauseating way to speak about how the church should think about advancing its mission of being faithful--which cannot be measured in economic terms... I hope I am misunderstanding your use of “cost per conversion.” Either way that seems to be a very nauseating way to speak about how the church should think about advancing its mission of being faithful–which cannot be measured in economic terms…

]]> By: Jason Lobmeyer http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6552 Jason Lobmeyer Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:48:32 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6552 I really like this post. Kudos to Gene for bringing up the uncomfortable subject of "where's God?" Are we really so intelligent that we've become able to quantify and determine the best way to bring people to Christ that there is no place for prayer or the leading of the Spirit? The marketing guys who dig this blog must hate those not in marketing. Of course they pray and love others and follow the guiding of the holy Spirit in their decisions. They probably don't need fellow christians to second guess their motives. I'm not in marketing. I do often wonder what the great deal of commotion over marketing the church is. Aren't we called to Go, not to Bring? This seems counter to the great commission and the example set by Jesus. During the Christmas holiday does it not register that he invaded our world and came to us? Perhaps our business minds from our capitalist society have no place in our faith. It doesn't appear that God is getting quite the right ROI from his death and resurrection. But that's why He's God, right? Mercy, love, forgiveness, sacrifice; that sounds like Him. I really like this post. Kudos to Gene for bringing up the uncomfortable subject of “where’s God?” Are we really so intelligent that we’ve become able to quantify and determine the best way to bring people to Christ that there is no place for prayer or the leading of the Spirit?
The marketing guys who dig this blog must hate those not in marketing. Of course they pray and love others and follow the guiding of the holy Spirit in their decisions. They probably don’t need fellow christians to second guess their motives.
I’m not in marketing. I do often wonder what the great deal of commotion over marketing the church is. Aren’t we called to Go, not to Bring? This seems counter to the great commission and the example set by Jesus. During the Christmas holiday does it not register that he invaded our world and came to us?
Perhaps our business minds from our capitalist society have no place in our faith. It doesn’t appear that God is getting quite the right ROI from his death and resurrection. But that’s why He’s God, right? Mercy, love, forgiveness, sacrifice; that sounds like Him.

]]> By: Gene Mason http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6551 Gene Mason Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:55:41 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6551 Whenever I think of efficiency measurements in the church (ROI, cost per conversion, etc.), I think about the Good Shepherd, who left the 99 sheep to care for the one, or Phillip, who left a successful "revival" in the NT at God's direction to go into the middle of nowhere and meet an Ethiopian. Neither was efficient by our standards in use of time and resources. In measuring our effectiveness, is it not interesting we think first about what it costs us to "get each person in" (to the church, the family of faith, whatever) versus how much we are sending out into the world? Would the most efficient and effective church, by the standards we see in the New Testament, not be the one that "gave it all away" versus "managed it well in order to receive a good return?" Cost-effectiveness conversations in the church always seem to come back to what we're spending on ourselves to reach ourselves. Where's the push beyond our campuses to impact the world? We're just simply having the wrong conversation. Whenever I think of efficiency measurements in the church (ROI, cost per conversion, etc.), I think about the Good Shepherd, who left the 99 sheep to care for the one, or Phillip, who left a successful “revival” in the NT at God’s direction to go into the middle of nowhere and meet an Ethiopian. Neither was efficient by our standards in use of time and resources.
In measuring our effectiveness, is it not interesting we think first about what it costs us to “get each person in” (to the church, the family of faith, whatever) versus how much we are sending out into the world? Would the most efficient and effective church, by the standards we see in the New Testament, not be the one that “gave it all away” versus “managed it well in order to receive a good return?”
Cost-effectiveness conversations in the church always seem to come back to what we’re spending on ourselves to reach ourselves. Where’s the push beyond our campuses to impact the world? We’re just simply having the wrong conversation.

]]> By: Jim McGee http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6550 Jim McGee Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:29:46 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6550 Speaking of "cost of conversion" in the spiritual sense (for anyone not thoroughly appalled by the idea), mission researchers David Barrett and Todd Johnson have compiled estimates of "Cost-effectiveness" (baptisms per $ spent in evangelistic activity) and "Responsiveness" (baptisms per time spent in evangelistic activity) for every country and people group (See www.worldchristiandatabase.com). Here in the U.S., they estimate we spend more than $1.5 million per baptism, but that doesn't even make the Top 10 least-cost-effective countries. Sobering. Speaking of “cost of conversion” in the spiritual sense (for anyone not thoroughly appalled by the idea), mission researchers David Barrett and Todd Johnson have compiled estimates of “Cost-effectiveness” (baptisms per $ spent in evangelistic activity) and “Responsiveness” (baptisms per time spent in evangelistic activity) for every country and people group (See http://www.worldchristiandatabase.com). Here in the U.S., they estimate we spend more than $1.5 million per baptism, but that doesn’t even make the Top 10 least-cost-effective countries. Sobering.

]]> By: Ray http://www.churchmarketingsucks.com/2007/12/marketing-waste-cost-per-conversion/comment-page-1/#comment-6549 Ray Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:29:07 +0000 http://cms.bigbadcollab.com/?p=1052#comment-6549 Tim, Good post. Marketing does have its place under stewardship. While numbers can be a bother, Jesus did talk about "fruit" and "harvest yields". This is a good way to gage those things. Tim,
Good post. Marketing does have its place under stewardship. While numbers can be a bother, Jesus did talk about “fruit” and “harvest yields”. This is a good way to gage those things.

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