Comments on: A Visionless Church

By: jeff

jeff — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:09:04 +0000

vision can be manipulated by our own egos and can contradict, even compete with the one true vision which we serve… our vision vs. God’s vision. The “bedroom” analogy was a nice touch… forcing something to happen instead of participating in something that is going to happen. we exsist and participate in God’s love, not manipulate it. you can have a vision for what you will do with the love, but cannot have vision for the love itself. God’s plan is elemntal.

By: nakedpastor

nakedpastor — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:55:15 +0000

hey! thanks for the great mention. I’m honored, to say the least! i must insert, though, that I don’t think I’m burnt out. After several degrees (yes you are right) and decades of pastoral experience (yes you are right), i’ve had extremely painful experiences. but i don’t think i’m burnt out. i’ve learned from my own studies and ministry that vision as we know it kills. i don’t say this resentfully or bitterly, but with sincere passion for the liberty of God’s people.

By: Larry

Larry — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:33:11 +0000

I’ve read through David’s blogs, and I’ve gotta say, I’m feeling a lot of pain there. His argument isn’t that the Church shouldn’t have a mission, but that he’s tired of the jargon/talk around other peoples’ “vision”. When he sounds passionate about ministry is when he’s comparing it to his teenagers: hanging out, laughing, being “aimless” (although most teenagers are hardly that); THAT’S his vision. I don’t know him or his history– apart from what I’ve read– but he sounds burned-out. I don’t think his post is a theoretical treatise on “vision,” I think it’s a cry for help.

By: Larry

Larry — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:30:03 +0000

By: Fred

Fred — Thu, 31 May 2007 07:05:25 +0000

In order to truly have no vision, you would have to not care where the church goes. The problem with most churches is not that they have a vision, but rather their vision is something they dreamed up. God is the one who gives visions and dreams. Part of the reason He does is that it causes us to trust Him to bring the vision to fruition. More churches need to set the model for their people of how to listen to God to see where He is wanting to lead. Because if we go where He leads, He will provide the strength and resources to accomplish that vision. That is the abundant life!

By: Don Record

Don Record — Thu, 31 May 2007 05:30:13 +0000

Perhaps if we thought of “vision” as our particular way of obeying God’s universal mandate to “go into all the world” and “love your neighbor as yourself”… Even though God will “build his church” it is still our priviledge and responsibility to use our “assets” in the best way possible to accomplish this goal.
Those of us “mandated” to financially provide for our families choose many different careers and jobs to accomplish that mission. We wouldn’t consider anyone noble or spiritually “in tune” for refusing to find the best job they were suited to because “God cares for the sparrows…” We would probably say they were lazy or negligent.

By: st. Mars

st. Mars — Wed, 30 May 2007 16:25:22 +0000

…in reading the blog, I can kinda see a reflection in what I’ve experienced; I am tired of the ‘corp’/J. Maxwell gospel. I think he does want to get basic in vision….like make disciples and feed sheep….that is what Jesus comanded….
…I’ve been feeling very missional lately…

By: Matthew

Matthew — Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:10 +0000

I believe the actual translation of the word vision in Proverbs is law, but the concept remains the same. I saw that this guy has multiple degrees in theology, etc. What I don’t understand is how you ignore scripture about planning before building or going to war (see the Gospels) or the fact that Paul laid out extensive lists of items for people to live by and remember. I think this guy has the idea right, in the end, it’s all about loving people and learning, but I think the order that we see in scripture is God’s way of saying there are certain things that He wants and doesn’t want. He most definitely had a plan and I believe he wants us to tap into it. In the end, it’s really not our vision at all, it’s His, and he has a way he wants it accomplished

By: Kevin D. Hendricks

Kevin D. Hendricks — Wed, 30 May 2007 11:18:08 +0000

I’ve heard a line of reasoning that claims ‘vision’ in the Proverbs verse quoted above (“Where there is no vision, the people perish…”) is mistranslated, or at least meant something else back then and not what we think of as ‘vision’.
I can’t remember where I read that. Rob Bell? Mark Batterson? Can anybody help me out?

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 30 May 2007 10:00:52 +0000

The concept of not having vision seems to be a reaction to churches that try to fit their congregation into the pastor’s vision. I have noticed with many smaller churches that what the church is able to accomplish is contingent on the passions/gifts of the congregation (if the congregation is passionate about art, then an art driven outreach can work). If church leaders aren’t sensitive to the gifts of the congregation, the vision can quickly cause discontent. Great stuff to think through and discuss.